Dogmatism and skepticism are both, in a sense, absolute philosophies; one is certain of knowing, the other of not knowing. What philosophy should dissipate is certainty, whether of knowledge or ignorance. - Bertrand Russell
"Our film [features] a very strong statement you made. You are talking about the foundational story of Mormonism and why it must be taken literally, that Joseph Smith had the vision he described and obtained the plates the way he did. You said there is no middle ground. Other churches are approaching their foundational stories and turning them into metaphor at times and going perhaps for the essence of the meaning. But that isn't true for you or for this church. I'm wondering if you can develop that idea: Why can't there be a middle ground in the way those foundational stories are understood?"
Pres. Hinckley - "Well, it's either true or false. If it's false, we're engaged in a great fraud. If it's true, it's the most important thing in the world. Now, that's the whole picture. It is either right or wrong, true or false, fraudulent or true. And that's exactly where we stand, with a conviction in our hearts that it is true: that Joseph went into the [Sacred] Grove; that he saw the Father and the Son; that he talked with them; that Moroni came; that the Book of Mormon was translated from the plates; that the priesthood was restored by those who held it anciently. That's our claim. That's where we stand, and that's where we fall, if we fall. But we don't. We just stand secure in that faith."
- Gordon B Hinkley – The Mormons, PBS interview
The church's scriptures and leaders have repeatedly made such comments, and it is a commonly taught principal. It's something that seperates Mormonism from many other religions. Many religions claim to know God, but not as many say they are the one and only church you can get exaltation through. It sets the Mormon church on a pedestal for its members to be proud of, but requires you to accept that all other church's are false. It's a claim that is as black and white as it gets. The following quotes also help to make my point.
"There are two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations."
- Book of Mormon, "1 Nephi, chapter 14, verse 10," 1981 ed.
"And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth..."
- Doctrine & Covenants, section 1, verse 30
"Q. What does the Lord require of the people of the United States?
A.He requires them to repent of all their sins and embrace the message of salvation, contained in the Book of Mormon, and be baptized into THIS church, and prepare themselves for the coming of the Lord.
Q. What will be the consequence if they do not embrace the Book of Mormon as a divine revelation?
A.They will be DESTROYED from the land and SENT DOWN TO HELL, like all other generations who have rejected a divine message!"
- Orson Pratt, The Seer, Washington, D.C., 1854, p. 215
"This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..."
- Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 164-165
"Our message is so imperative, when you stop to think about the salvation, the eternal salvation of the world, rests upon the shoulders of this Church. When all is said and done, if the world is going to be saved, we have to do it. There is no escaping from that. No other people in the history of the world have received the kind of mandate that we have received. We are responsible for all who have lived upon the earth, and that involves our missionary work. And we are going to be responsible for all who will yet live upon the earth."
- Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, July 3, 1999, p. 3
How far do Mormons take this "one true church" idea? Is it ever taken to a point of infallibility? That seems so unreasonable, surely they wouldn’t claim that, and wouldn’t it be just as unreasonable to expect it? Later when I learned there may be some problems with the church, I started taking part in discussions on online forums about the church. There were many versions of defenders of the church even among people who knew about some of its major issues. One of the arguments that stood out to me that I heard on several occasions was that it was wrong to hold the church to an all or nothing standard.
Is it wrong to put the church's claims of truth to a black and white standard of either it's all true or none of it is, or that they will never be wrong in statements intended to provide guidance and leadership to the members of the church? It has been said that this is to create a false dichotomy that is black and white with no grey area. A dichotomy where the church is either true or false based on its ability to always be correct in all things.
A False Dichotomy, also called a false dilemma is a fallacy that occurs when a person is asked to choose between black and white options. It also occurs when additional options are omitted. For example, you must choose between either a or b and only one of these choices is correct. Additionally, I'm either intentionally or unintentionally omitting that there are also several other explanations such as c, d, and e that may also be correct.
While it may be a dichotomy, it may not always be false, and my question is who set the standard of measurement? Was it the critics or the church itself? Is the measurement being applied to the claim or to the person? Of Course it’s silly to think any person could be held to a standard of always being correct, but if it was the church that set the standard regarding statements made by prophets is it wrong to hold them to the bold standard they have claimed? Also, in the case of some statements is it not true that a dichotomy does in fact exist in that either the claim is true or false? Note in the previous quote by Gordon B. Hinkley the "it’s either true or false." In this statement he is stating the foundational claims of Mormonism are either true or false. Well of course he’s right. In this case they can’t be both. Either the instances he listed happened or they didn’t. As we will see, black and white comments like these are applied to just about every word the prophets speak. So if this is the case, the church leaders clearly become the ones setting the bar with their bold claims. In making these bold claims, not only is there often a dichotomy of true or false regarding the claim itself, but there often isn’t a false dichotomy in expecting them to be correct in their claim because you would only be holding them to a standard of correctness they have attached to their claims.
To simplify this imagine I told you I could jump over a 10 ft bar without any mechanical assistance. Anyone who knows me knows I can’t jump very high. Anyone who can use Google could quickly determine that the highest high jump ever is just over 8ft. So the idea that I could jump a 10 ft bar is ridiculous. There is a dichotomy in that either I can jump over the bar or I can’t. Additionally there’s not a false dichotomy in holding me to my claim that I can. If I was your religious leader and I inserted additional claims to this such as telling you that not only can I clear the bar, but that I would never lie to you for God would not permit it, does that change the basic claims I’m making and how they should be measured? It doesn’t. If anything the additional support claims I have attached should be held to the same scrutiny.
The reasoning behind the high bar is actually very simple. In Mormonism God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God is all knowing and all powerful. The prophet of the church is God’s one true and chosen mouthpiece for God on the face of the earth. If the words of the prophet are the words of God, and God is perfect, then when the prophet speaks for God he can’t ever be wrong. To be wrong would undermine the claim that he speaks for a perfect God. In Mormonism this is clearly where the bar is set and can be found in the Doctrine & Covenants.
"What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."
- Doctrine &Covenants, section 1, verse 28
This idea that the prophet of the Mormon Church is the one true mouthpiece of God on earth is also regularly reinforced in church talks from leaders, lessons, and magazine articles such as the following.
"A prophet, then, is the authorized representative of the Lord. While the world may not recognize him, the important requirement is that God speaks through him. A prophet is a teacher. He receives revelations from the Lord. These may be new truths or explanations of truths already received"
- A. Theodore Tuttle, "What Is a Living Propeht?," Ensign, Jul 1973, 18
Only a Sith deals in absolutes right? Well, no, there's also people who claim to speak on behalf of a God. This can be complicated for this prophetic person when later his claims he made on behalf of God are shown to be incorrect. This becomes even more complicated for people who want to hold these men up as prophets of such a God, but who later find they may have been wrong on several occasions with some very significant statements. While such claims certainly are not limited to the prophets of the LDS church, they will be the focus of what I am now writing. So let’s take a look at some comments from LDS leaders regarding the all or nothing approach to Mormonism.
"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."
- Wilford Woodruff, October 1890, Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference
"It is the judgment of men not illuminated by the Holy Ghost which commits mistakes. Men's thoughts are not as God's. The men who have led this Church in this dispensation do not make mistakes, although, viewed by individuals devoid of the Holy Spirit, some of their acts may assume that appearance. I testify that President Woodruff, who stands at the head of the Church, is directed by the revelations of God. So with those associated with him. They may make mistakes in their personal concerns, but the affairs of the Church of Christ are moved forward by the power of inspiration of the Almighty. The Church will not diminish in power, but will increase in every gift and grace and in the power of salvation from this time forward."
- Abraham H. Cannon, April 1891, General Conference, Saturday Afternoon Session. Stuy, Brian.Collected Discourses Vol. 2. p.204
"God has led this Church from the beginning, by prophets and inspired men. He will lead this Church until the scene is wound up. He will neither permit me nor any other man to lead this Church astray. If I turn from the commandments of God and attempt to lead the people astray, the Lord will remove me [p.269] out of my place, for the Lord has set His hand to lead this people by revelation and by inspired men. The Lord has "chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; * * and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are." We feel our weaknesses. I wish myself that I were a better man than I am. Of course, I have endeavored to do about the best I could in my weak way. I still wish to do so. But I am dependent upon the Lord and upon the prayers of the Saints, the same as my brethren."
- Wilford Woodruff, August 1891, Bear Lake Stake Conference. Stuy, Brian.Collected Discourses Vol.2 p.268
"I remember many years ago, when I was a boy, hearing President Young state in Provo, where I lived, something like this: "Some people may think I am not leading the Church aright. Now, I will tell you how you may know when I do not lead the Church aright. The Lord will just nip my wind; for He will never allow any man to lead this Church astray." I have had a great deal of confidence in that saying, and I have not been the least alarmed in regard to the leading of this Church."
- John W. Taylor, Conference Report, October 1903. p.48
"I bear testimony that this Church was organized by the Lord, and He has maintained that organization from the Prophet Joseph Smith down to the Prophet Joseph F. Smith, without any mistake; for God has directed the choice of every President, every Counselor, every Apostle, every President of Stake, and every Bishop in this Church. The Lord has done it, and it has not been the work of man. He has designated these men, by His own Spirit and voice, and they stand just where they belong, and they will always stand there as long as they are worthy and are not placed in 'some other position. The Lord is caring for His work and for His people, and He will do it to the end."
- Francis M. Lyman, Conference Report, April 1907. p.117
"The living God governs the words and testimonies of his servants as they come upon the earth, just as he counseled with them when they stood among the spirits and knew them to be the men that He would have them to be, God, our eternal Father, through His Son Jesus Christ, has proved to the world that he has never made a mistake with the men that He has called to lead Israel; from the days of Adam until now. He has chosen men that He knew, before their worldly career, who would come forth in time, and be the leaders of men, and He said through Paul, the Apostle, that He hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation."
- Samuel O. Bennion, Conference Report, April 1922. p.139
"There are a number of men today, and always will be, who feel in their hearts that they ought to lead the Church, that they ought to be chosen apostles. The woods are full of them every time there is a vacancy. This same class of men feel that the Church itself is out of gear and going wrong. President Woodruff made this broad remark.] "I say to all Israel; I say it to the whole world, that the God of Israel, who organized this Church and Kingdom, never ordained any president or presidency to lead the Church astray." I am glad of that, so that we need not worry about the Church. God knows we have enough other things to worry about. Go home and go to sleep; God will never allow them to lead us astray."
- J. Golden Kimball, Conference Report, October 1922. p.172
"The last words uttered by President Joseph F. Smith were to the effect, when he shook hands with me--he died that night--'The Lord bless you, my boy, the Lord bless you; you have got a great responsibility. Always remember this is the Lord's work and not man's. The Lord is greater than any man. He knows whom he wants to lead His Church, and never makes any mistake. The Lord bless you.'
"I have felt my own lack of ability. In fact when I was called as one of the Apostles I arose to my feet to say it was beyond anything I was worthy of, and as I was rising the thought came to me, 'You know as you know that you live that John Taylor is a prophet of God, and to decline this office when he had received a revelation is equivalent to repudiating the Prophet.' I said, 'I will accept the office and do my best.' I remember that it was with difficulty that I took my seat without fainting."
- Heber J. Grant, Conference Report, April 1941. p.4
"All men are entitled to inspiration, especially men who bear the priesthood, but only one man is the Lord's mouthpiece. Some lesser men have used in the past, and will use in the future, their offices unrighteously. Some will, ignorantly or otherwise, use their office to promote false counsel; some will use it to lead the unwary astray; some will use it to persuade us that all is well in Zion: some will use it to cover and excuse their ignorance. Keep your eye on the Prophet, for the Lord will never permit his Prophet to lead this Church astray. Let us live close to the Spirit, so we can test all counsel."
- Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1966. p.123
"Your safety and ours depends upon whether or not we follow the ones whom the Lord has placed to preside over his church. He knows whom he wants to preside over this church, and he will make no mistake. The Lord doesn't do things by accident. He has never done anything accidentally. And I think the scientists and all the philosophers in the world have never discovered or learned anything that God didn't already know. His revelations are more powerful, more meaningful, and have more substance than all the secular learning in the world. Let's keep our eye on the President of the Church and uphold his hands as President Tanner and I will continue to do."
- Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1970. p.127
"Safety is in following divinely appointed leadership and counsel. . . . The keys of this power and authority center in the president of the High Priesthood of the Church. It is not given to any other man to so represent God here upon the earth. . . . God will not suffer his Church, established for the last time in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times when a restitution of all things is to be accomplished, to be led by a fallen prophet, or by someone whom he does not want."
- Delbert L. Stapley, in Conference Report, Apr. 1952, pp. 49–50
"I testify in the name of Israel’s God that He will not suffer the head of the Church, him whom He has chosen to stand at the head, to transgress His laws and apostatize; the moment he should take a course that would in time lead to it, God would take him away. Why? Because to suffer a wicked man to occupy that position would be to allow, as it were, the fountain to become corrupted, which is something He will never permit."
- Joseph F. Smith, in Journal of Discourses, 24:192
"I bear witness to you, my brothers and sisters, that God sustains him, and no one else in the world today but him, because he has the holy calling of prophet, seer, and revelator, representing the Lord upon the earth in our time. He only has the right to revelation for the people of the Church, and if all people would understand that they would not be tossed about by those who would seek to divert their minds from the Church and its glorious principles...
It is a great and inspiring moment in our council to hear President McKay say, "Brethren, the Lord has spoken. His will has been done." It is a great moment, a thrilling moment, and you have the sure feeling that what he has said or designated is true, and of God.
Now, President McKay does not require any defense. I do not need to say these words in defense of him. His life, his works, his faith, his love and devotion are unquestioned and exemplary, not only to the people of this Church but also to all the world, but if the people of the Church understand the calling and position of the chosen and anointed prophet of God, they will be fortified against false teachers and anti-Christs, and we do have them among us.
- Delbert L. Stapley, Conference Report, Oct. 1953, p. 70
"I bear you my solemn witness that we have a living prophet, seer, and revelator. We are not dependent only upon the revelations given in the past . . . we have a mouthpiece to whom God is revealing his mind and will. God will never permit him to lead us astray. As has been said, God would remove us out of our place if we should attempt to do it. You have not concern. Let the management and government of God, then, be with the Lord. Do not try to find fault with the management and affairs that pertain to him alone and by revelation through his prophet."
- Harold B. Lee, "The Place of the Living Prophet, Seer, and Revelator," in Charge, p. 112
"I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."
- Wilford Woodruff, in "General Conference," Millennial Star, 24 Nov. 1890 [52:741]; or The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, pp. 212–13
"No man holds divine authority equal to or above the president of the Church. In his position he is pre-eminent!
"Let us understand fully the clear identity of the president of the Church. He is the mouthpiece of God on earth for us today."
- "The Certain Sounds," Church News, October 9, 1983, p. 24
"Follow your leaders who have been duly ordained and have been publicly sustained, and you will not be led astray."
- Boyd K. Packer, General Conference October, 1992
"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."
- Wilford Woodruff, General Conference, October 6, 1890
"The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth. Your leaders are trying to live their religion as far as [they are] capable of doing so."
- L. Tom Perry, General Conference Oct. 1994 (Quoting Journal of Discourses, 9:289)
"The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother’s arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for it they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth."
- Brigham Young Journal of Discourses v 9 p 289
"President Lee once remarked that President Heber J. Grant counseled: "Brethren, keep your eye on the President of this Church. If he tells you to do anything and it is wrong and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it. But you don’t need to worry; the Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead this people astray."
- David B. Haight, Ensign, January 1974, You are Different
"The time will never come when we will not be able to put confidence and exercise faith in the teachings and in the instruction of those who lead us…Therefore it behooves us, as Latter-day Saints, to put our trust in the presiding authorities of the church…No man ever went astray by following the counsel of the authorities of the Church."
- Joseph Fielding Smith Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 243
"The Lord has said of the President of the Church "that none else shall be appointed [to receive commandments and revelations] except it be through him."
- James E. Faust, General Conference April 1996, The Prophetic Voice
"Every intelligent person under the heavens that does NOT, when informed, acknowledge that Joseph Smith, jun. is a Prophet of God, is in darkness, and is opposed to us and to Jesus and his kingdom on the earth."
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 223
"Whosoever confesseth that Joseph Smith was sent of God to reveal the holy Gospel to the children of men, and lay the foundation for gathering Israel, and building up the Kingdom of God on earth, that spirit is of God; and every spirit that does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 176, September 9, 1860
Clearly these guys have a lot of confidence in their leadership ability and the idea that God put them there and would remove them if they ever lead the members wrongly. The idea of whether or not they will always lead us correctly seems pretty clearly stated. In addition to these statements that were made, the prophets role has also been clearly spelled out to members through 14 points on two separate occasions.
"Trusting in and following the prophets is more than a blessing and a privilege. President Ezra Taft Benson declared that "our [very] salvation hangs on" following the prophet. He described what he called "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet." In the session this morning, Elder Claudio Costa of the Presidency of the Seventy so eloquently instructed us on these 14 fundamentals. Because they are of such great importance to our very salvation, I will repeat them again.
"First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
"Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
"Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
"Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.
"Fifth: The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
"Sixth: The prophet does not have to say ‘Thus saith the Lord’ to give us scripture.
"Seventh: The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
"Eighth: The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
"Ninth: The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
"Tenth: The prophet may be involved in civic matters.
"Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
"Twelfth: The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
"Thirteenth: The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
"Fourteenth: [Follow] … the living prophet and the First Presidency … and be blessed; reject them and suffer.""
- Kevin R. Duncan, General Conference, October 2010
So let’s summarize the definitive statements made so far. The church is either true or false. Joseph Smith either talked to God and Jesus or he didn’t. Either the Book of Mormon was translated from gold plates or it wasn’t. The voice of the prophet and God are one and the same, and his voice shall be fulfilled. The men who have led this church in this dispensation do not make mistakes. God will not has not and will never allow any man to lead the church astray. That person would be removed by God if he tried to do anything not the will of God. God maintained the church’s organization from Joseph Smith at least through Joseph F. Smith without any mistake. God has directed the choice of every President, Counselor, Apostle, President of Stake, and every Bishop in this church. God governs the words and testimonies of his servants. God has never made a mistake with any man who has been called. All men are entitled to inspiration, but only the prophet is the Lords mouthpiece. The living prophet is more important than the scriptures. The prophet is not required to have any training. The prophet does not have to say "thus saith the Lord" to give us scripture. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning. Follow the prophet and you will be blessed. Reject them and you will suffer.
That’s a pretty good list of all or nothing, true or false statements. Critics of the church didn’t make these claims, the leaders of the church did. So is it wrong to hold them to their claims and judge them according to the bar they themselves have set? A bar they boldly claim and expect their believing members to embrace. Or when they have been in error and in fact lead the church astray, should those actions be dismissed as the flaws of an imperfect man? According to the previous statements God wouldn’t allow that to happen. I suppose it is of course possible that even all of these claims are in fact false, and simply the mistakes of imperfect men. However, that isn’t the regard in which these men are held by the general membership.
The previous statements were all made by church leaders in declaring that they will always give the best guidance, and even without error because God would not permit it. They make these statements knowing that members believe in them. They know that the members place a great amount of trust in them based on these statements. In addition to statements of their perfect leadership through God, they also make many statements aimed directly at the members and how they should follow the Prophets.
"Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me; For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith."
- Doctrine & Covenants, section 21, verses 4–5
"O hearken, ye elders of my church, and give ear to the words which I shall speak unto you. For behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, that ye have received a commandment for a law unto my church, through him whom I have appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations from my hand. And this ye shall know assuredly—that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me. But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead.
- Doctrine & Covenants, section 43, verses 1–4
"Recently I have read biographies of all the past presidents of the Church except President Snow-- his I have not had available--as well as biographies of Heber C. Kimball, Parley P. Pratt and other leaders of the Church. In all the experiences of my life, including this reading, I have never learned of a single instance where a person who has followed the advice and counsel of the leaders of the Church suffered there from. On the other hand the record of the past is full of instances where men have refused to follow such advice and counsel and as a result have lost the Spirit of the Lord and the companionship of His people. These observations have persuaded me that the Church leaders speak under the inspiration of the Lord regardless of the subject under consideration, and have strengthened my determination not to try too closely to discriminate between when they speak as prophets and when they speak as men."
- Marion G. Romney, Conference Report, April 1941. p.123
"God will do nothing regarding His work except through His own duly anointed prophets! They are His servants. They are the watchmen on the towers of Zion.
"They will give us the Lord’s word in no uncertain terms as God makes it known. That is why He has His prophets on earth. They are for the edification of the Saints and to protect us from every wind of doctrine. Let us follow them and avoid being led astray."
- Mark E. Peterson, "When Shall It Be?," Church News, December 12, 1981, p. 16
Some instruction for members with regards to following the prophet are simple claims of being blessed and that he is who not just the members should look to, but the whole world. But what if the prophet were to get something wrong? I know it’s been stated repeatedly that can’t happen, but what if it did? Check out the following counsel:
"Now, brethren, if we will keep these things in mind, we shall not be deceived by false teachings. I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting, I drove him home. At that time there was a great deal of criticism against the President of the Church because of a front-page editorial some of you may remember. We talked about it. When we got to his home I got out of the car and went up on the porch with him. Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: "My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it." Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, "But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.
I have thought much about that. I remember that counselors in the Presidency have been deceived. I remember that members of the Twelve have been deceived and left the Church, and men in every other Council in the Church have been deceived. But there has never been a President of the Church, and according to President Grant, and I believe him, there never will be a President of this Church who will lead the people astray."
- Marion G. Romney, in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78
It seems clear the members are expected to be obedient and not question. Going back to the one true church idea, supported by these mouthpieces of God who will never lead the church astray, what does this mean for Mormons who have discovered the church has some pretty serious issues that it fails to answer for. Many of these people try to carve out their own personal form of belief in the church where they simply reject some parts, and keep others. These people are often called cafeteria, middle way, or new order Mormons (NOMs). Aren't they simply doing the same thing the church is doing in dismissing parts of its doctrines? What if there are modern parts they also don't accept, such as the church's opposition to gay marriage? If as President Hinkley stated, it's either all true or none of it is, how can either the church or a NOM be correct in simply ignoring, diminishing, dismissing, or even changing it to a metaphor for life? The following quotes continue on the previous point of how to handle if they may be wrong, or if you have questions, but also seem applicable to contradict the room NOMs carve out a new belief system within the church.
"Teach of faith to keep all the commandments of God, knowing that they are given to bless His children and bring them joy.4 Warn them that they will encounter people who pick which commandments they will keep and ignore others that they choose to break. I call this the cafeteria approach to obedience. This practice of picking and choosing will not work. It will lead to misery. To prepare to meet God, one keeps all of His commandments."
- Russell M Nelson (General Conference April 2011), Face The Future with Faith
"Christ and his prophets go together... it is not possible to believe in one without believing in the other... by rejecting the prophets we reject Christ himself."
- Bruce R. McConkie, cited in 1978 Devotional Speeches of the Year: BYU Devotional and Addresses, 1978, p. 118
"...if any man preach any other Gospel than that which I have preached, he shall be cursed; "
- Joseph Smith, Jr., The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 366, also in History of the Church, v. 6, p.365
"Now may I say a word concerning loyalty to the Church. We see much indifference. There are those who say, 'The Church won't dictate to me how to think about this, that, or the other, or how to live my life.' No, I reply, the Church will not dictate to any man how he should think or what he should do. The Church will point out the way and invite every member to live the gospel and enjoy the blessings that come of such living. The Church will not dictate to any man, but it will counsel, it will persuade, it will urge, and it will expect loyalty from those who profess membership therein. The book of Revelation declares: 'I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth' (Revelation 3:15-16). I make you a promise, my dear brethren, that while I am serving in my present responsibility I will never consent to nor advocate any policy, any program, any doctrine which will be otherwise than beneficial to the membership of this, the Lord's Church. This is His work. He established it. He has revealed its doctrine. He has outlined its practices. He created its government. It is His work and His kingdom, and He has said, "They who are not for me are against me" (2 Nephi 10:16)." In 1933, there was a movement in the United States to overturn the law which prohibited commerce in alcoholic beverages. When it came to a vote, Utah was the deciding state. President Heber J. Grant, then President of this Church, had pleaded with our people against voting to nullify Prohibition. It broke his heart when so many members of the Church in this state disregarded his counsel. On this occasion I am not going to talk about the good or bad of Prohibition but rather of uncompromising loyalty to the Church. How grateful, my brethren, I feel, how profoundly grateful for the tremendous faith of so many Latter-day Saints who, when facing a major decision on which the Church has taken a stand, align themselves with that position. And I am especially grateful to be able to say that among those who are loyal are men and women of achievement, of accomplishment, of education, of influence, of strength-highly intelligent and capable individuals. Each of us has to face the matter-either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing."
- Gordon B. Hinckley. "Loyalty," April Conference, 2003.
"For us, to 'believe all things' means to believe the doctrine of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as well as the words of the Latterday prophets. It means to successfully erase our doubts and reservations. It means that in making spiritual commitments, we are prepared to hold nothing back. It means we are ready to consecrate our lives to the work of the kingdom. The more we believe, the easier faith-based obedience becomes. Hence the value of 'believing all things.' We are instructed to be like children, who are willing to be taught and then to act without first demanding full knowledge. Some members are constantly evaluating the gospel by the standards of the world. They may think, 'That is not how I think the Lord would want it done,' or, 'Based on my understanding of the scriptures, the Church position should have been . . .' Some Church members may have reservations because of a physical appetite they are not quite willing to surrender. Other common reservations are flagged by words such as 'yes, but . . .' when scriptures or prophets are quoted. Or we may hear, 'I am not going to let the Church make my decisions for me.' Obedience is a fundamental law of the gospel. It is not only the demonstration of our faith but also the foundation of our faith. But the philosophical standard of the world holds that unquestioning obedience equals blind obedience, and blind obedience is mindless obedience. This is simply not true. Unquestioning obedience to the Lord indicates that a person has developed faith and trust in Him to the point where he or she considers all inspired instruction — whether it be recorded scripture or the words of modern prophets — to be worthy of obedience. One day there will be answers to all our questions, and they will be based on divine fairness and love. The Lord will not hold people accountable for factors over which they have no control. Let us believe all things. Let us have unquestioning faith in all of the doctrines and truths of the restored gospel."
- Robert Oaks, "Believe All Things," Ensign, July 2005, page 30
"I know a 17-year-old who, just prior to the prophet’s talk, had pierced her ears a second time. She came home from the fireside, took off the second set of earrings, and simply said to her parents, "If President Hinckley says we should only wear one set of earrings, that’s good enough for me." Wearing two pair of earrings may or may not have eternal consequences for this young woman, but her willingness to obey the prophet will. And if she will obey him now, on something relatively simple, how much easier it will be to follow him when greater issues are at stake."
- M. Russell Ballard, "His Word Ye Shall Receive," Ensign, May 2001, 65
"But no child in this Church should be left with uncertainty about his or her parents' devotion to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Restoration of His Church, and the reality of living prophets and apostles who, now as in earlier days, lead that Church according to 'the will of the Lord, . . . the mind of the Lord, . . . the word of the Lord, . . . and the power of God unto salvation.' In such basic matters of faith, prophets do not apologize for requesting unity, indeed conformity, in the eloquent sense that the Prophet Joseph Smith used that latter word. In any case, as Elder Neal Maxwell once said to me in a hallway conversation, 'There didn't seem to be any problem with conformity the day the Red Sea opened.' What a classic example of the warning Elder Richard L. Evans once gave. Said he: "Sometimes some parents mistakenly feel that they can relax a little as to conduct and conformity or take perhaps a so called liberal view of basic and fundamental things-thinking that a little laxness or indulgence won't matter-or they may fail to teach or to attend Church, or may voice critical views. Some parents . . . seem to feel that they can ease up a little on the fundamentals without affecting their family or their family's future. But, if a parent goes a little off course, the children are likely to exceed the parent's example." To lead a child - or anyone else - even inadvertently, away from faithfulness, away from loyalty and bedrock belief simply because we want to be clever or independent is license no parent nor any other person has ever been given. In matters of religion a skeptical mind is not a higher manifestation of virtue than is a believing heart, and analytical deconstruction in the field of, say, literary fiction can be just plain old-fashioned destruction when transferred to families yearning for faith at home. And such a deviation from the true course can be deceptively slow and subtle in its impact. As one observer said, "[If you raise the temperature of my] bath water . . . only 1 degree every 10 minutes, how [will I] know when to scream?"
- Jeffrey R. Holland, General Conference, Sunday April 6th 2003
"You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.’ (DC 21:6)"
- Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, Oct. 1970, p. 152
"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan-it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."
- Improvement Era, June 1945, p 354
"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes, whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the ‘prophets, seers, and revelators’ of the Church is cultivating the spirit of apostasy. Lucifer…wins a great victory when he can get members of the Church to speak against their leaders and to ‘do their own thinking’…When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan – it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy."
- Ward Teachers Message Deseret News, 26 May 1945, p. 5
"When the Prophet speaks, ... the debate is over. ... We must turn all this about. We cannot serve God and mammon. Whose side are we on? When the prophet speaks the debate is over."
- N. Eldon Tanner, Ensign, August 1979 p 108
"The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter temporal or spiritual. The prophet may be involved in civic matters. The prophet and the presidency--the living prophet and the First Presidency--follow them and be blessed, reject them and suffer."
- Dallin H. Oaks, "Reading Church History," CES Doctrine and Covenants Symposium, Brigham Young University, 16 Aug. 1985, page 25. also see Dallin H. Oaks, "Elder Decries Criticism of LDS Leaders," quoted in The Salt Lake Tribune, Sunday August 18, 1985, p. 2B
"It is one thing to depreciate a person who exercises corporate power or even government power. It is quite another thing to criticize or depreciate a person for the performance of an office to which he or she has been called of God. It does not matter that the criticism is true. As Elder George F. Richards, President of the Council of the Twelve, said in a conference address in April 1947, 'when we say anything bad about the leaders of the Church, whether true or false, we tend to impair their influence and their usefulness and are thus working against the Lord and his cause.' ... The Holy Ghost will not guide or confirm criticism of the Lord's anointed, or of Church leaders, local or general. This reality should be part of the spiritual evaluation that LDS readers and viewers apply to those things written about our history and those who made it."
- Ezra Taft Benson, "Fourteen Fundamentals in following the Prophet", February 26, 1980
"Have we not a right to make up our minds in relation to the things recorded in the word of God, and speak about them, whether the living oracles believe our views or not? We have not the right…God placed Joseph Smith at the head of this Church; God has likewise placed Brigham Young at the head of this Church;…We are commanded to give heed to their words in all things, and receive their words as from the mouth of God, in all patience and faith."
- Orson Pratt Journal of Discourses v 7 pp 374-375
"You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.’ (DC 21:6)"
- Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, Oct. 1970, p. 152
"It is an easy thing for a man with extensive academic training to measure the Church using the principles he has been taught in his professional training as his standard. In my mind it ought to be the other way around. A member of the church ought always, particularly if he is pursuing extensive academic studies, to judge the professions of man against the revealed word of the Lord."
- Boyd K Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271
"Learn to do as you are told…if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it, none of your business whether it is right or wrong." Heber C. Kimball
- Heber C Kimball Journal of Discourses v 6 p 32
"The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know…the living prophet gets at what we need to know now…Some so-called experts of political science want the prophet to keep still on politics. Some would-be authorities on evolution want the prophet to keep still on evolution. And so the list goes on and on. How we respond to the words of a living prophet when he tells us what we need to know, but would rather not hear, is a test of our faithfulness."
- Ezra Taft Benson, "Fourteen Fundamentals in following the Prophet", February 26, 1980
"The prophet is not limited to men’s reasoning. There will be times when you will have to choose between the revelations of God and the reasoning of men – between the prophet and the politician or professor."
- Ezra Taft Benson, "Fourteen Fundamentals in following the Prophet", February 26, 1980
"I must not be too critical of those professors. They do not know the things of the Spirit. One can understand their position. It is another thing, however, when we consider members of the Church, particularly those who hold the priesthood and have made covenants in the temple. Many do not do as my associate did; rather, they capitulate, cross over the line, and forsake the things of the Spirit. Thereafter they judge the Church, the doctrine, and the leadership by the standards of their academic profession."
- Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271
"[The Church’s] only democratic characteristic inheres in the right of the membership to accept or reject law or doctrine transmitted from on high. There is no provision in the Church for nominations by the membership of the governing authorities, and church elections have the doubtful status of oral plebiscites."
- Dale L. Morgan, The Great Salt Lake, 1947, p. 403
"Relative to our city charter, courts, right of habeas corpus, etc., I wish you to know and publish that we have all power; and if any man from this time forth says anything to the contrary, cast it into his teeth…All the power there was in Illinois she gave to Nauvoo; and any man that says to the contrary is a fool."
- Joseph Smith, History of the Church V 5 p 466
"The kingdom of God must exist in absolute unity. Every law must be obeyed, and no member of the Church can have a place there unless he is in full accord."
- Joseph Fielding Smith Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 3, p. 27
Understand from the previous comment, that members in the old church often referenced what they were building here on earth as the literal kingdom of God. They were establishing the new Zion, the last dispensation, God's one true church, and building up his kingdom. Even if the comment was directed towards an afterlife, which I don't believe it does based on the context, in building his kingdom here on earth one would have to abide by the same principles.
It's also something to consider, that not only is the church the one true church, God's kingdom here on earth, which is lead by leaders who do no wrong, but the members are expected to never criticize or question their leaders, and when instructed to vote a certain way they should all do so in unity. In the early days of the church the affect this likely had in Missouri would be considerable. Would it be different today, if no repeal of such comments and expectations has been offered, and the Mormons were the dominant faith of the country, or world? If sharia law scares you, what makes this any different? It's not like Mormons haven't demonstrated a willingness to take such religious commitment, combine it with a persecution complex, and harm other people. Mtn Meadows. Danites. Widdling deacons.
"But the great cause of popular fury was that the Mormons at several preceding elections had cast their vote as a unit, thereby making the fact apparent that no one could aspire to the honors or offices of the country within the sphere of their influence without their approbation and votes. It appears to be one of the principles by which they insist upon being governed as a community, to act as a unit in all matters of government and religion…It is indeed unfortunate for their peace that they do not divide in elections, according to their individual preferences or political principles, like other people."
- Thomas Ford, Governor of Illinois History of the Church V 7 p 2-3
"Let us all vote one way, and think and act one way, and keep the commandments of God."
- Brigham Young Journal of Discourses V 13 p 219
"In political matters we are pretty well united. At our elections we generally vote as a unit."
- John Taylor V 11 p 355
So the church is true, prophets don’t make mistakes, and even if they do you should follow them no matter what. Not much wiggle room so far is there.
Making absolute claims isn't restricted to religions. People foolishly make them all the time. However, for a religious leader who claims to speak on behalf of an unchanging God, these types of statements have added significance for their audience, as well as added complexity in handling them when they don't pan out.
Have the prophets ever made past comments to allow for error? Sure they have. Even to the point of being contratdictory to each other. Read the following four quotes and see if it doesn't leave you scratching your head a bit.
"In February of 1843, Joseph Smith corrected a couple who thought that "a prophet is always a prophet," instead explaining that "a prophet was a prophet only when acting as such," making it clear that not every word and deed would be determined by God."
- (Joseph Smith, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, edited by B. H. Roberts (Salt Lake City, 1958), Vol. 5, p. 265; see also Vol. 2, p. 302 and Vol. 6, p. 366).
"A prophet is a prophet only when he is acting as such."
- Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 5, p. 265
"A prophet is wonderful because he sometimes speaks for the Lord. This occurs on certain occasions when the Lord wills it. On other occasions, he speaks for himself, and one of the wonderful doctrines of the Church is that we don’t believe in the infallibility of any mortal."
- Henry Eyring, Faith of a Scientist, p. 23
Of course today they say the same right?
"There is no error in the revelations Joseph taught!"
- Neal A. Maxwell, Sermons Not Spoken, p.6
"...Joseph did not respond at times, of course, such as by issuing a summational disclaimer as from the temple stand in Nauvoo, saying, "I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught."
- Neal A. Maxwell, Meek and Lowly, pp. 105-106
"Just a few scant days before his martyrdom, Joseph affirmed: 'I never told you I was perfect; but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught. Must I, then, be thrown away as a thing of naught?'"
- The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 368
"Thus the issue for those who signed the New York affidavits was the trustworthiness of Joseph Smith. Since Rodger Anderson argues so intensely for respecting Hurlbut and his signers, evidently their supposed view of Joseph Smith is really his: "For them, he would always remain a superstitious adolescent dreamer and his success as a prophet a riddle for which there was no answer" (p. 116). But the New York townsmen had a stronger answer-­fifty-one signers in Palmyra said the Prophet was "entirely destitute of moral character." The Prophet answered the core issue of his youth in the blunt Nauvoo comment: "I never told you I was perfect, but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught." (Yup that statements seems to have been made, printed and repeated numerous times)
- May 12, 1844 discourse, in Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, The Words of Joseph Smith (Brigham Young University Religious Studies Center, 1980), p. 369, also in Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, by Richard Lloyd Anderson, p.62.
"When the work of the Prophet Joseph Smith was completed...These were his words upon the memorable occasion of one of his last addresses to the Saints. "Oh! I beseech you go forward and make your calling and election sure -- when did I ever teach anything wrong from this stand? When was I ever confounded? I want to triumph in Israel before I depart hence and am no more seen. I never told you I was perfect -- but there is no error in the revelations which I have taught."
- The Historical Record, May 12, 1844, v. 7, p. 548, also in History of the Church, v. 6, p.366
Really? So as it's taught in section 132 of the Doctrine & Covenants polygamy is required for exaltation?
"1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many awives and bconcubines—
2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.
3 Therefore, aprepare thy heart to receive and bobey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.
4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting acovenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye bdamned; for no one can creject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory."
He wasn't asking God about marriage of one man and one woman. It clearly says in verse one that God is answering the question as it pertains to plural marriage. Well polygamy is still in the scriptures, which can't be said for many edits that have happened to the book and to the temple ceremony as it was revealed by Joseph.
These comments place the understanding of what is scripture on the members without clear explanation for how to know, but instead the members are admonished to follow the prophet regardless. Later you can discover if he was being a prophet or a man by finding out if he was right, or if the church later eliminates it from the manuals. This also contradicts how Brigham Young states every sermon he taught was scripture. Which must include doctrines like Adam God right? He even goes on in another curse any future man who preaches contrary to his scripture/sermons.
"I have never preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 95
"...if any man preach any other Gospel than that which I have preached, he shall be cursed;"
- Joseph Smith, Jr., The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 366, also in History of the Church, v. 6, p.365
"If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church…who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason."
- Brigham Young Journal of Discourses v 16 p 161
"The prophet does not have to say "Thus saith the Lord" to give us scripture. Sometimes there are those who haggle over words. They might say the prophet gave us counsel, but that we are not obligated to follow it unless he says it is a commandment. But the Lord says of the Prophet Joseph, "Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you" (Doctrine and Covenants 21:4). And speaking of taking counsel from the prophet, in Doctrine and Covenants 108:1, the Lord states: "Verily thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Lyman: Your sins are forgiven you, because you have obeyed my voice in coming up hither this morning to receive counsel of him whom I have appointed". Said Brigham Young, "I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture."
- Ezra Taft Benson, BYU Devotional Assembly, February 26, 1980
"The Presidents of the Church from the Prophet Joseph until now have received revelations from the Lord for the guidance of his people. While all these revelations have not been placed in the Doctrine and Covenants, they are none the less true. Not all the revelations given to Joseph the Seer were placed in the Doctrine and Covenants in his day; we have added many of his revelations to that volume since his death. And there are others that have not been placed in it. Some of them were for the Church and not for the world, and therefore, are given only to the saints. But many revelations have been given to the Church since the death of Joseph Smith. Some of these have been published; some have not. It has been my privilege to read and handle a number of them that are still in the manuscript and have not as yet been given to the world for a wise purpose in the Lord. But they are on file and will be preserved."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 280
"Let me add that when a revelation comes for the guidance of this people, you may be sure that it will not be presented in some mysterious manner contrary to the order of the Church. It will go forth in such form that the people will understand that it comes from those who are in authority, for it will be sent either to the presidents of stakes and the bishops of the wards over the signatures of the presiding authorities, or it will be published in some of the regular papers or magazines under the control and direction of the Church, or it will be presented before such a gathering as this at a general conference. It will not spring up in some distant part of the Church and be in the hands of some obscure individual without authority, and thus be circulated among the Latter-day Saints. Now, you may remember this."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 287
When they speak from the pulpit, or before a congregation, is public speaking able to be considered scripture? It appears not much is dismissed as scripture. Unless of course he was speaking as a man...WAIT, it's always just a man speaking!
"In addition to these four books of scripture, the inspired words of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, Church publications, and instructions to local priesthood leaders. 'We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and we believe that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God.’"
- Gospel Principles, p. 55
"What is Scripture? When one of the brethren stands before a congregation of the people today, and the inspiration of the Lord is upon him, he speaks that which the Lord would have him speak. It is just as much scripture as anything you will find written in any of these records, and yet we call these the standard works of the Church."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 186
"We are also blessed with a testimony and witness that not only did the powers and the authority come to Joseph but that he passed them on down, and that today, President McKay, as prophet, seer, and revelator, stands for the Church as the mouthpiece of God, and when he speaks through the inspiration of the Lord, as he will when he speaks to the Church, he proclaims what the Lord would have us know today."
- J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Conference Report, October 1954
When it comes to pointing out the many claims of perfection, what is considered scripture, and our expected obedience, what are some apologetic answers for this? Here is part of the answer given on the FAIR website which supplies apologetic answers on behalf of the LDS church.
"The prophets are not perfect, but they are called of God. They may speak as men, but may speak scripture as well. Every person may know for themselves whether they speak the truth through the same power that their revelation is given: the power of the Holy Ghost."
A few question their faith when they find a statement made by a Church leader decades ago that seems incongruent with our doctrine. There is an important principle that governs the doctrine of the Church. The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. True principles are taught frequently and by many. Our doctrine is not difficult to find.
The leaders of the Church are honest but imperfect men. Remember the words of Moroni: "Condemn me not because of mine imperfection, neither my father … ; but rather give thanks unto God that he hath made manifest unto you our imperfections, that ye may learn to be more wise than we have been" (Ether 12:6).
- Neil L. Anderson, "Trial of Your Faith," Ensign (November 2012).
The Church's response
"Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four "standard works" of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted."
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Approaching Mormon Doctrine (May 4, 2007)
In response to a letter "received at the office of the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" in 1912, Charles W. Penrose of the First Presidency wrote:
Question 14: Do you believe that the President of the Church, when speaking to the Church in his official capacity is infallible?
Answer: We do not believe in the infallibility of man. When God reveals anything it is truth, and truth is infallible. No President of the Church has claimed infallibility."
Probably to no surprise I have a few issues with their apologetic explanation. The first is that much of what they are saying is entirely correct, but it ignores the true context of the statements made that people have issue with. For example, "Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church" and "Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted." This makes is sound as if people are taking simple statements that were said maybe one time by a well meaning but incorrect leader and blowing them out of proportion. They are painting a picture that tries to diminish the questions people are having by simply saying the questions are about trivial comments being taken out of context. It completely ignores the questions people are having about comments that were stated repeatedly over the pulpit and in accordance to the many above quotes of leading the church. What if a prophet gets up and speaks on a subject repeatedly over many years to the membership, such as Brigham Young's Adam God Theory, Blood Atonement, and Racial comments such as the following
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. The nations of the earth have transgressed every law that God has given, they have changed the ordinances and broken every covenant made with the fathers, and they are like a hungry man that dreameth that he eateth, and he awaketh and behold he is empty."
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 10, p. 110
Brigham young clearly calls it a "law of God" and his statement was reinforced by additional comments such as the following.
"We must not inter-marry with the Negro. Why? If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would oil be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of Negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse. There isn’t any argument, therefore, as to inter-marriage with the Negro, is there?"
- Mark E. Peterson, "Race Problems – As They Effect the Church," Address given at the Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level, delivered at BYU, August 27, 1954
These and many other comments on numerous subjects are far from isolated, and not from a single leader on a single occasion. This is insulting to many past and present members who are struggling with the questions. It's even more insulting to the struggling member who reads FAIR's page on the subject and knows these apologists are well aware their dismissive comments are in fact out of context to the magnitude of the question.
Certainly the church doesn't now teach such an idea, and it is no longer even known by most members. But there has never been an acknowledgement, apology for, or even explanation of such comments. They simply decided to eliminate such comments through the correlation of the modern doctrine. The comments aren't so old they can be forgotten, because you can't pick up any manual even today that doesn't selectively use quotes from the same time periods. The likely reason no explanation has been given and they simply tried to make them go away (until the internet made information available to all) is likely because it would then beg the question, based on the many quotes previously listed about never leading the church astray, and knowing members listening to these men would have believed in their prophets the same way modern members do today, would they not then have been lead astray? Were they not the mouth piece of God who is the same yesterday, today and forever? Do you really think members long ago would just dismiss such comments, even as they were repeatedly taught for decades?
The second problem I have in FAIRs comments are when they say "It (the doctrine) is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. True principles are taught frequently and by many. Our doctrine is not difficult to find." Again this statement purposefully ignores the omission of many doctrines that were previously taught repeatedly by the top 15 of the church from current manuals. Modern Mormonism doesn't teach many doctrines. It isn't hard to find the church's current position on many subjects, but where is their position on these subjects that clearly were taught in the same manner for many years that would either say the church was once or is now in apostasy of its own claims? Simply currently omitting them may mean it's not part of Modern Mormonism, but it doesn't offer an explanation to members who are later shocked to learn about them.
Third, this comment "Every person may know for themselves whether they speak the truth through the same power that their revelation is given: the power of the Holy Ghost" is not only dismissive of previous members testimonies of such "false" doctrine that are simply being taken out of context, but it is manipulative by use of the psychology of belief. It also lays the blame of being able to determine which teaching are true and which are not on the member, rather than the prophet who made the comment and used language such as "law of God." Additionally, it supposes the primary way to know what is true is based on a feeling that contradicts the same type of testimonies of not only past members who followed past prophets, but members of every other church in the world that uses faith and feelings to provide strength in testimonies of differing doctrines.
Lastly, and this one is a gem, "We do not believe in the infallibility of man. When God reveals anything it is truth, and truth is infallible. No President of the Church has claimed infallibility." The first sentence states something that everyone, critics and believers agree with. Of course they aren't infallible. Of course they have made mistakes. I'm not asking them to be perfect, I'm asking them to make clear statements of their wrongs, acknowledge them, in some cases apologize for them, and stop the general teaching and belief of the members that they are infallible based on "never lead astray" talks that are still taught today. The second sentence and first sentence mean nothing to each other. In the second sentence, it states that what God reveals is truth which is infallible. Ok I'm with you, but how again does God reveal his truth? But mostly, the final sentence is just a flat out lie based on many quotes made to the members by the leaders, many of which I've already listed, and ignores the belief of infallibility by the general members they have built, and regularly reinforce. I couldn't tell you how many times in classes and talks at church and in conference people have reinforced the "never lead us astray" and "when the prophet speaks the thinking is done" concept of following the church leaders. Remember, as I stated in the beginning, I agree these men aren't infallible, but what I'm questioning is how they teach and allow memberships to believe they've never been lead astray based on the bar they have set for themselves.
I've heard it said by many exmormons that nothing insulted their intelligence more than the apologetic websites, and nothing did more to make them leave than their dismissive and often insulting explanations.
What if you are reading questionable sermons from previous prophets from the not hidden, but no longer current approved text, even though the church published it at one time Journal of Discourses? Are these part of the acceptable texts from the church we can use? The church still uses it in their current manuals when the quotes fit the context of modern mormon doctrines. Is it ok for them to be selective in the quotes, using the ones they like, but telling you to ignore the ones they don't like? Why even ask the question? The Journals of Discourse have been a major source for critics in showing how badly many prophets have misguided the church. It comes up regularly in conversations between critics, questioning Mormons, believers, and apologist. I've also seen on several occasions people state that it isn't one of the current standard works, and therefore the church shouldn't be held to what is written in it. These comments are often made by the less informed believers, who don't seem to enjoy hearing what their beloved prophets may have said in the past.
"The Journal of Discourses deservedly rank as one of the standard works of the church."
- Journal of Discources Vol. 8, Preface
"Journal of discourses contains the words of Apostles and Prophets and will prove a source of light, information and joy."
- George D. Watt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. vii
"We are privileged to present to the Saints and the world, the Third Volume of the Journal of Discourses, containing the principles of the Gospel of salvation delivered to this generation through the Apostles and Prophets of the Most High, by the power of the Holy Ghost."
- Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. iii
"Read the discourses of the first Presidency and the Twelve, and you will see that they are filled with revelation, with light, with knowledge, with wisdom, and with good counsel unto this people. ... There has not been a single minute that this people has been left without the voice of God."
- George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 345
"The Journal of Discourses is a vehicle of doctrine, counsel, and instruction to ALL people, but especially to the Saints. It follows then, then, [sic] that each successive volume is more and more valuable as the Church increases in numbers and importance in the earth."
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. iii
Of course even if you do decide to question the church's leaders, be careful because according to these comments, they are above criticism. Members are even warned to never ever criticize past or present church leaders - Even if it's True
"Criticism is particularly objectionable when it is directed toward Church authorities, general or local.... Evil-speaking of the Lord’s anointed is in a class by itself. It is one thing to depreciate a person who exercises corporate power or even government power. It is quite another thing to criticize or depreciate a person for the performance of an office to which he or she has been called of God. It does not matter that the criticism is true."
- 1985 CES Doctrine and Covenants Symposium, pp. 24-25
"That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. ... Do not spread disease germs!"
- Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271
"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up "facts" with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture: "The righteousness of God [is] revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness." (Rom. 1:17-18.) I repeat: 'The wrath of God is … against all … who hold the truth in unrighteousness.' To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action in light of this sacred scripture: "These dissenters, having the same instruction and the same information … yea, having been instructed in the same knowledge of the Lord, nevertheless, it is strange to relate, not long after their dissensions they became more hardened and impenitent, and … wicked, … entirely forgetting the Lord their God." (Alma 47:36.) We must realize that we are at war. The war began before the world was and will continue. The forces of the adversary are extant upon the earth. All of our virtuous motives, if transmitted only by inertia and timidity, are no match for the resolute wickedness of those who oppose us."
- Russell M. Nelson, "Truth—and More," Ensign, Jan. 1986, page 69
Apostle Dallin H. Oaks published a similar talk for the February 1987 Ensign Magazine. Again, Apostle Oaks declared that there is no place in the church for public criticism of church leaders, even if the criticism is true. He also said:
"...As the scriptures say, there is "a time to keep silence, and a time to speak. Does the commandment to avoid faultfinding and evil speaking apply to Church members’ destructive personal criticism of Church leaders? Of course it does. It applies to criticism of all Church leaders—local or general, male or female. In our relations with all of our Church leaders, we should follow the Apostle Paul’s direction: "Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father." (1 Tim. 5:1.) Government or corporate officials, who are elected directly or indirectly or appointed by majority vote, must expect that their performance will be subject to critical and public evaluations by their constituents. That is part of the process of informing those who have the right and power of selection or removal. The same is true of popularly elected officers in professional, community, and other private organizations. A different principle applies in our Church, where the selection of leaders is based on revelation, subject to the sustaining vote of the membership. In our system of Church government, evil speaking and criticism of leaders by members is always negative. Whether the criticism is true or not, as Elder George F. Richards explained, it tends to impair the leaders’ influence and usefulness, thus working against the Lord and his cause. Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government. We are all subject to the authority of the called and sustained servants of the Lord. They and we are all governed by the direction of the Spirit of the Lord, and that Spirit only functions in an atmosphere of unity. That is why personal differences about Church doctrine or procedure need to be worked out privately." (this is worth repeating)
- Dallin H. Oaks, "Criticism," Ensign, Feb. 1987, page 68
But what about if a prophet contradicts scripture? What if a prophet contradicts himself? Which comment was him speaking as a man, and which comment was him speaking as a prophet? Or were both comments just him saying what he thought his immediate audience should hear? Are you kidding me?
Either way, this was until recently the living porphet speaking on the same subject and giving two different answers. This gets even more complicated because members are advised that the words of a living prophet are more important that scripture.
"The older I get and the closer contact I have with the President of the Church, the more I realize that the greatest of all scripture which we have in the world today is current scripture. What the mouthpiece of God says to his children is scripture. It is his word and his will and his law made manifest through scripture, and I love it more than all other."
- Henry D. Moyle General Conference April 1973
Another thing to consider before you accept such an apologetic answer is that damage is caused to people's lives who chose to believe in some comments made by prophets. As I've taken part in many discussions related to my past faith of Mormonism, I've come across many people who attempt to dismiss criticisms of the prophets and apostles for statements they have made that they now are going back on or no longer teach. It has also been suggested that they were speaking as men when they are later found incorrect, but as prophets for anything that isn't shown later to be incorrect. The problem in this approach is that in the current time at which the statement has been made, and not shown to be incorrect, it is expected that all members accept it as a divine and correct message from God through his prophet. Only later when the comment is found incorrect is its delivery redefined. In the mean while members continue to act on them. This can be especially damaging if it's a message such as one of the many dandies given by the prophet Brigham Young such as the idea that if a white and black person were to marry, the penalty according to God himself is death on the spot, and this will always be so. How many years did members believe according to this comment? What damage was done? Is it then acceptable for an apologist to dismiss it to a modern generation by simply saying he was speaking as a man? Even when he clearly said he was speaking for God, and we know that is how members took it? This compounds when later the church tries to distance itself from such comments by simply changing the doctrine or quietly tries to move past it without ever directly saying "we were wrong." By never admitting it was wrong it still allows from some members to hold on to such evil ideas with full justification from a prophet. They are after all still printing manuals for learning about Brigham Young. It's not like they've distanced themselves from the prophet of the Lord's university. So for that poor member who finds such a comment and accepts it even today, they are justified by their religion. All the while, for other members who find it, the main voice of the church is leaves the member with no clear answer. They have to accept the weaker answer of speaking as a man from apologetics. I would like to address apologetics more later, but I felt these aspects were worth mentioning now as it pertains to the topic.
Most Mormons take the words of the prophets very seriously. It's normal to hear in church comments about how the prophets words are the same as God's own, or that when the prophet speaks the thinking is done. This leaves the "speaking as a man" idea completely unsatisfying for people who want a clear answer. Unfortunately based on the church's track record on a number of issues, don't expect a clear answer from them regarding much of its difficult history. You're more likely to hear them simply state that it's no longer accepted, or even heresy to mention such comments.
So now we've established the church is the one true church, the prophets are unquestionable, and we shouldn't criticize them. What happens when obvious prophecies don't come true?
Are you kidding me? The prophets said those things, the church put them in writing in a text that has been called one of the standard works, and all they have to do is stop mentioning them in current lesson manuals and members become completely ignorant of these failed prophecies. In fact, you'll probably be accused of being anti-mormon for bringing up these comments made by past leaders, and FAIR will tell you it's just a few out of context comments. No wonder the LDS church has become a prophetically lead church that speaks for God, and God has had very little to say for many years. Unless you're wearing to many ear rings or has recently masturbated. In which case you need to go see your bishop a.s.a.p.
It was not the critics of the church that made outrageous claims. The bar of how high to hold the LDs church's leaders was set by non other than themselves. The general membership accepts this, and holds these leaders in a near sacred regard as a result. The leadership would have to be living in a black hole to not know this. It is absolutely ok to hold them to such a standard until the day that they correct the standard. It is ok to criticize past comments until they address those comments when the comments fall under such a standard by members. Considering some racist and some sexist doctrine that has been taught, damage has been done by members blind acceptance and inability to question.
Then ask why would a member argue for the false dichotomy. If one suggests that this is a false dichotomy, and I'm holding the leaders to too high of a standard, I can't see how it defends their ability to believe. I held these men to such a standard as believer! I knew I was suppose to do what I was told without question, because to many members, listening to the prophet is the same as listening to God himself!
Is it Ok to demand perfection? No. Is it ok to hold someone to a level of perfection they claim via God Almighty himself? Yes.
It is wrong to expect the church and it's leaders to always be right. However, it is the leadership of the LDS church that has set the bar so high, not the critic. The critic only points out where they fail to reach the bar. It is not wrong to point out that an organization has repeatedly missed the mark it has set for itself. To place the church above criticism, simply because we want to keep it at an unattainable mark of perfection isn't fair to the members who follow without question, the members who now have doubt from discovering the church's flaws, and the church itself as an organization. Lower the bar, or face the criticism honestly. (or both)
It is true that there has been an unattainable bar set so high that failure almost seems certain. Yet so many members believe in the place the bar currently rests. They believe based on the bold statements to that affect that have been made repeatedly by their leaders. By the people they trust. The members are also encouraged to be 100%, strong in the faith, like the sons of Helaman. They are told there is no room for moderate or non orthodox points of view. Certainly there are moderate Mormons, but many will tell you that they are bothered by the zeal demonstrated by so many of the "Molly Mormons," the "Peter Priesthoods," and the "TBMs." (true believing Mormons) But aren't these people just being the best Mormons they can be? Can they be faulted for following the counsel to the letter, and having the faith that is so strongly prescribed from the pulpit?
Still wondering exactly where they have fallen short? Stick around, I'll be going into several topics to come. However, please be patient. In addition to having a life that leaves little time for this, I want to be as thorough as I can on any topic I address. Compiling such a post can take months.
This chapter was quite challenging to put together, and in the end I probably included far too many quotes to make my points. However, I did this intentionally. I wanted to show that these ideas are preached regularly to the members. After all, I wouldn't want for an apologist to say I was simply taking one simple quote to make a point and using it out of context.
In conclusion it would better had the Lords anointed made statements similar to these as for claiming the ultimate and infallible truth they've spoken of on behalf of God.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
- William Shakespeare
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
- Socrates
"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens"
- Jimi Hendrix
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."
- Andre Gide
"Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions."
- Oliver Wendell Holmes
"Not to be absolutely certain is, I think, one of the essential things in rationality."
- Bertrand Russell
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief."
- Gerry Spence
"The wise man questions the wisdom of others because he questions his own, the foolish man, because it is different from his own."
- Leo Stein
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
- Voltaire
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."
- F. Scott Fitzgerald
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
"Irrationally held truths may be more harmful than reasoned errors."
- Thomas Huxley
"Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment."
- Rumi, Masnavi i Man'avi
"He who knows all the answers has not been asked all the questions."
- Confucius
"The measure of intelligence is the ability to change."
- Albert Einstein
"Wonder is the beginning of wisdom."
- Socrates
"The more I read, the more I acquire, the more certain I am that I know nothing."
- Voltaire
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
- Stephen Hawking
To these ideas, Monson and the church seem to have but one comment.
This isn't some backwoods preacher from Arkansas we're trying to say misspoke, this is the Prophet of God. (The above photo is something I found, and I'm pretty sure it's photo shopped)
If any images were used without proper credit, please let me know and I will happily credit their maker. Many of the above images can be found at mormonteachings.com and mormongags.com. The image with the box was drawn by a person in a forum, but I can't remember their name.
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